Dark&Under - A Dungeon Crawler


(Stephane C) #201

At this point why don’t you make an official sequel? The sequel could use all the extras you can add now. I would love to see the game using raycasting so that you can actually move and fight more in real-time… Not too sure how hard it would be though.


(Simon) #202

I would love to convert this to raycasting however I would need help!


(Pharap) #203

Two words: Lode Vandevenne.
https://lodev.org/cgtutor/raycasting.html

I’d be concerned about the code size though…

There’s a handful of simple raycasters already made for Arduboy:

So instead of using one of those, why not just invent another one? :P

(Obligatory XKCD.)


(Simon) #204

I remember reading some of this linked document previously (I think you linked it previously) and thought to myself ‘one day I will have a crack at that’ but, alas, I haven’t found time yet.

I am hoping that someone would like to collaborate with us.

In terms of size, I am happy to drop the USB support and to change to SpritesB to free up a good chunk of memory!


(Scott R) #205

Nothing gets me more excited than some dark & under discussion. A sequel would be great it would be cool if we could save stats from the first game to start the sequel to continue the journey with our heroic warriors.


(Simon) #206

That my friend is already in the code. The dungeon designer allows you to string maps together and even change the image at the end of each mission to a custom image.


(cyril guichard) #207

I REALLY want to be involved in a raytracing engine on Arduboy!

However, I’m not sure Dark and Under should be the candidate for that: the ability to “rotate” in “3D” doesn’t really bring anything gameplay wise (or not like it would to a shooter, for example). It’s cool, and feels modern, but my feelings is that much space/memory would need to be given up for a cool feature that doesn’t directly contributes to gameplay.
Again, it’s just my opinion, but if we can claim memory back I’d rather spend it on monsters diversity, tilesets diversity, more monsters per level, more intricate mazes, maybe more inventory items so that players get to make more meaningful decisions.

If we were on a device with unlimited space, it would be a different story… Again, though, I’m really eager to contribute to a raycaster, so I could change my mind, but I just think a Raycaster would serve better an action game that is about aiming and shooting :slight_smile:


(Stephane C) #208

My point was more about the fact that we could probably be able to dodge hits in real-time and do things like stepping back then forward and hit… I love Dark and Under but always thought I never really had control over the actions. Like select attack… It does or does not work, nothing I can do about it. Same for blocking… Could be just me thought.


(Jean Charles Lebeau) #209

i just give my opinion: Vampirics, i’m more about luxregina minds: Dark&Under have a gameplay and making a real-time game with ability to fight, dodge, asw in a raycasting system is for me another game (maybe a game that could use a part of Dark&Under but another game with more information about monsters, management of the height maybe too). With all system and references change, you could of course call it Dark&Under 3D if you try to collapse to the original but for me liberty, you could maybe give to this new game another name ?


(cyril guichard) #210

Yeah, like Oblivion/Skyrim… It works well for these games, and the bigger screens, but I’m not sure how it will look, and most importantly, play, on a device the size of a Arduboy. That was the big learning experience when I worked on the FPS: it can be done, but it’s hard to make it feel satisfying (I didn’t say impossible… :slight_smile: )

Dark and Under is a clone of Wizardry, Dungeon master or Eye of the beholder, hence embrace the “static 3D” view - and it relies on exploration and orientation more than action.

This said, games like Ultima Underworld later on embraced the raycasting or Mode7 approach, so I could totally see it happen for D&U. The real concern would be what we would need to give away in order to support a feature that is not “necessary”

Ultimately it all boils down on what whoever wants to contribute to the project wants to do and as far as I’m concerned, I’m pretty open to whatever :slight_smile:


#211

Because it’s more fun! just like reinventing the wheel :stuck_out_tongue:

Seriously though I’ll be working on a low level raycaster for a reboot of Maze of Doom with @luxregina so it could also be used for D&U.

You might not need too. If I don’t get sidetracked this weekend I might finish my assembly optimised version of sprites.cpp which should save a few more bytes them spritesB

You could also consider compiling it with my homebrew package it uses even more optimisations :grin:


(Simon) #212

I cannot wait to see this!


(cyril guichard) #213

@filmote and @Mr.Blinky As far as I am concerned, I am about to get on a teaching “winter” break from November 16th till January 7th… I’ll have a few obligations here and there but I’ll be mostly available to work on whatever :slight_smile:


(Pharap) #214

We could change the mechanics so it’s more of an action RPG.
Something more like the Elder Scroll series or the Witcher series.
Either melee combat or shooting spells.

If the Arduboy had an SD card and some more RAM, that alone would be enough to expand the repetoire massively, because every dungeon, monster and tileset could be shoved onto the SD card.

I know of a device that would fit the bill (I suspect @filmote and @Vampirics know which one I mean), but I’d be reluctant to move to a different system because it would feel like we were drawing people away from the Arduboy, or punishing those who don’t want the other system.

That’s just how turn based RPGs work usually.
One alternative would be to have a timed button press mechanic to increase attack damage, like in Paper Mario TTYD (one of my favourite RPGs because of its quirkiness):

But timed stuff is usually quite difficult to program.

In fairness though, it wouldn’t be the first time a game has drastically changed genre.

A lot of game series started off in one genre and ended up covering different genres with different games.
E.g. Final Fantasy had a spin-off called Final Fantasy Tactics that was grid-oriented like Disgaea.

The Elder Scrolls: Arena was nothing like Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim.

When I started learning to program the people at StackOverflow were always saying “use a library, don’t reinvent the wheel”.

I didn’t listen. Now I’m really good at inventing wheels because I learnt how wheels work internally and the sort of challenges involved in inventing wheels.

The moral of the story: feel free to reinvent the wheel, it’s fun and educational. :P


(cyril guichard) #215

If you talk about the Gamebuino, I do own one :slight_smile: and dare I say “color!!!” :slight_smile: but we are getting away from the topic at hand :slight_smile:


(Pharap) #216

I wasn’t. Evidently you didn’t get the memo.

Say ‘couleur’ instead, it makes up for the lack of 'u’s. :P


(cyril guichard) #217

Couleurs!!! and no memos! :slight_smile:


(Jean Charles Lebeau) #218

It’s the META for color version (couleur :wink: ) It’s a good console. I like it. They are finishing to sell last gamebuino ‘classic’ but guys like you could be very helpfull to use all the power of it. On the forum there is two main langage english and french but frenchies are more active as we have less forum to talk in french and the target of the console is from young children to old and not all are talking english and some like me write english but it’s not natural and we have more and less difficulties to translate our minds and ideas could be modified when we writte it. Sorry is a little out of the subject but it was an answer about last posts.
People like you that use any free bytes of a console and with so many talents than you could be very helpful as the console is at the beginning, alot to do. Real programs and games are coming but it’s take time is it’s done in free time and alot don’t have so many free time that they would. I stop now my out of subject.


(Pharap) #219

Hrm, I may have to consider getting one before they’re gone…

Mon francais est nul, mais je parle et comprende un peu. :P

Maybe you should try to organise your own French-speaking tech enthusiast forum?
There was an article about the Arduboy entirely in French, so there’s probably demand for it.

If I could make categories here, I’d consider trying to put a few more foreign language categories in, starting with French, German and Spanish.

Unfortunately there’s three problems with that idea:

  1. Getting people with enough spare time to translate resources/content for the foreign language sections.
  2. There’s a chance it could end up dividing people into separate sections of the forum that never interact. People in one section could end up being oblivious to what goes on in another.*
  3. We’d probably need moderators that speak the languages to monitor those sections. The English-speaking moderators are less likely to understand what’s going on/when something bad is happening.**

* Like what often happens with ‘ethnic enclaves’ - e.g. the Brits who move to Spain, only talk to other Brits and never learn Spanish.

** E.g. a lot of English-speaking people (or one British newspaper at least) would think “fait l’imbécile” was an insult calling someone ‘an imbecile’ (i.e. “un idiot”), but it’s actually an idiom roughly meaning “messing around” or “playing the fool”.


(As some will know, I’ve previously attempted to pioneer some game localisaion with Minesweeper. I’ve also attempted to speak to people in their own language a few times, with varying success. :P)


(Stephane C) #220

You always get bonus points for at least trying.